resin and wood

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    • #764
      roy
      Guest

       Hello from Scotland Katherine. A request from a male for a change. Im a retired woodworker and got bored. Im trying to make wood and resin pendants, you will know the kind I mean. Half wood at the top and half resin at the bottom. I am using water clear resin polyester at the moment and I cant get the wood to bond to the resin or, if you put it the other way resin to wood. Could you or any forum members enlighten me. I would be most grateful for any advice you could pass on. I hear a lot about Epoxy resin, would this be a better way to go, or is there some kind of adhesive required. Im pretty good with wood but at the moment, resin is not my forte. Thank you in advance for your efforts Katherine. Incidentally this is a superb site. Nothing as good as this in Scotland. Long may you continue.

      Roy
    • #765
      Katherine Swift
      Guest

      Hi Roy,

      Using resin and wood together is not something I have done, but I will do my best to answer your questions.

      Are you casting the resin separately, then trying to adhere it to the wood, or are you trying to cast the resin and the wood together at the same time?

      Is your resin curing sufficiently?

      (Thanks for the comments about the site.  Much appreciated!)

    • #766
      roy
      Guest

       Thank you for your quick reply Katherine, considering my query was sent on Saturday. My problem is Im casting the wood and resin together as one piece,(hopefully). As I mentioned I was in the woodworking trade for forty years, so Im familiar with its vagaries but NOT so with the resin. The kind of effect Im trying to

      get is similar to what Britta Boekman and Marcell Dunger does, which you may be familiar with, and she uses Polyester resin. Dunger uses BIO RESIN but that stuff is even more expensive than Epoxy. I am very grateful to you for your help Katherine. Take care.
      Roy, from a cold and wet Scotland. 
    • #768
      roy
      Guest

       Hi Katherine. Strange as it may seem, the resin DOES cure but NOT where it touches the WOOD. The other day I tried a little experiment, by making a 2" X 1/4" disc of mahogany. In the center of the disc I drilled a 1/2"hole all the way through and filled it with resin. Resin cured perfectly, but I could still push the piece of resin out of the center, despite leaving it for 24 hours in a warm room. I noticed on the center piece that the outside edges,(where it was against the wood), were still tacky????

      If you GOOGLE wood and resin pendants,(if you havent done so already)LOL, you will see a lot of stuff there. Some of Boekmans stuff uses wood which has irregular edges so she cant be using adhesive, they all look to be an all in one casting, and she does state in her site she uses polyester resin. Or is she using Epoxy and got mixed up between the two. 
      I sincerely hope this makes sense to you Katherine. Maybe you can spot something I am missing. Incidentally Katherine I got absolute DOGS ABUSE for bringing that obnoxious smelly resin into the house. No heat in the workshop LOL
      Again Katherine thank you so much for your help.Take care.
      Roy, from a cold and DRY Scotland.
    • #767
      Katherine Swift
      Guest

      Hi Roy,

      Im intrigued to hear you know of someone that uses polyester resin for these types of projects.  The surface exposed to air will cure sticky, which I would expect could cause a problem when finishing.

      When you cast the resin and wood together, does the resin cure?  If so, does it cure as a separate piece from the wood?  Im perplexed as to why they wouldnt create one large piece.

      Greetings from sunny and humid Florida.  😉

    • #769
      Katherine Swift
      Guest

      Hi Roy,

      Is your wood treated with something?  Is the wood wet?  Resin hates moisture, so Im wondering if that is why it isnt wanting to stick to the wood.  I would be curious to know if the same thing would happen if you used an epoxy or polyurethane resin.

      Im going to reach out to a resin contact that has a lot of experience with wood to see what he has to say.  Wood and resin are something I dont have a lot of experience with.

      As you have found out, polyester resin smell is heinous!  I never do that inside and always wear a respirator when working with polyester resin.  How long did it take for the smell to go away?

    • #770
      roy
      Guest

       Hello Katherine, the wood has not been treated with anything at all. It is also as dry as Death Valley. I am just thinking, I can be a bit of a perfectionist and through years of habit I sanded the wood with very fine abrasive, so could that be part of the problem??, wood surface too smooth for the resin to take hold. Could I use a little more hardener than the recommended amount to get the resin to cure quicker. Or am I talking nonsense. At 69 years of age youre inclined to talk nonsense now and again. LoL. Again Katherine, I must thank you for going to all this trouble for me. Very nice when someone takes an interest in what your doing.

       I hope this is not keeping you away from more important things, after all you have a business to run. The smell went away quite quickly when I turned on the extractor fan. I was allowed out of the doghouse this morning with a stern WARNING.
      Take care. 
      Roy.
    • #771
      Katherine Swift
      Guest

      Hi Roy, heres the response from my resin and wood contact:

      Hi Katherine..
      I read the thread and I understand what hes trying to do. And yes, it can be a little tricky, no matter which resin you use.

      First off, we can get him out of the doghouse by pouring outside and then putting the casting (mold and all) into a plastic container with a lid. (Tupperware, GladWare etc.) That allows him to bring the resin into a more temp. controlled environment, yet keep the fumes within the container. Bring it back outside to de-mold and air out.

      Second, this can be done with polyester resin. (see attached pic) He may be onto something when he mentions sanding with a fine grit. You do want to have a little tooth left for the resin to adhere to.. especially if the resin isnt wrapped around the item. (like a pen)

      But some woods have a high oil content, and this can inhibit bonding. OIly woods such as cocobolo, olive, some rosewoods etc. have enough oil that they create a barrier between the wood and the resin. This is especially true once the resin heats up and causes the oils to leech out of the wood. If it loads sandpaper quickly, it might not be a good candidate for casting unless you can reduce the surface oils. (a good wash with acetone can help)

      As for the surface being tacky . .yes, polyester resin doesnt cure as quickly on the surface because oxygen inhibits the cure. Thats why youll often see wax additives for the final coat. The wax sits on the top (keeping the air out) so the surface cures the same as the rest of the casting. But a bit of plastic wrap will accomplish the same thing. And the surface wont stay tacky for that long, anyway. Give it an extra few hours and it will be fine. OR ah hour or so in a toaster oven cures the top nicely. (also makes for a stronger resin over time)

      I would probably avoid adding more catalyst, as that has a tendency to overheat the resin and make it brittle. You only need enough catalyst to get the thermal reaction going. The resin would eventually cure on its own, even with no catalyst.. even in the can. Polyester resins are usually pre-promoted.

      Having said all that, if he has access to a pressure pot (a friend who uses one for painting, perhaps?) many people find that using pressure after pouring works for them. (I never found it helped the bond, but theres a lot of pet theories out there) Others swear by vacuum to pull the resin into the wood. I think the resin would need to be pretty thin (viscosity) to make its way into the wood fibers in the short time it takes for the resin to start gelling, but its worth looking into. Another option would be to stabilize the wood (liquid acrylic products sucked into the wood by vacuum and then oven cured) and then cast it. This would essentially be a resin to resin bond.

      I make pen molds for wood turners to make pens, and many of them cast with polyester (as do I) so I know it works. Others use polyurethane and that works, too. I havent tried casting epoxy and wood, so I really couldnt speak to that option, but Ive certainly poured epoxy over wood and that bonds just fine.

    • #772
      Katherine Swift
      Guest

    • #773
      roy
      Guest

       Hello Katherine. Well what can I say, you have well and truly solved the problem. Thank you does not seem to be enough for the trouble you have gone to to get information for me. But it is a big thank you. I must thank your "wood and resin" friend too, as his advice has been most helpful. Please pass on my thanks to him if you would. That is a beautiful pen too.

      I purposely avoided using the exotic oily woods as your friend says, as I knew that would cause a bigger problem. However your friends information is a great help to me, and hopefully maybe someone else.
      You know Katherine, hindsight is a great thing, I never thought to put the curing resin in a tub with a lid on, Ill know the next time. But the "boss" says there had better NOT be a next time. LOL. Ah well Thats life.
      Again Katherine,  THANK YOU very much for all your help.
      Second day of summer here in Scotland and we have a howling gale and horizontal rain, but that is Scotland Ha Ha. Take care.
      Roy. 
    • #10008
      MARIA R CASTRO
      Guest

      Hi! I am trying to insert some wood sticks into resin but it makes a lot of bubbles and like sea foam. How can I prevent this? Thank you very much

    • #10015
      Katherine Swift
      Keymaster

      @Maria It sounds like the wood is releasing gas within the resin. You will need to dry and seal the wood in a couple of layers to keep this from happening.

    • #10706
      Dan
      Guest

      Hi,

      I am pulling my hair out with this and really hope you are able to help!?? I am having a spot of trouble with the MB Fibreglass Polycraft ClearTopc 5 epoxy resin. I am based in Scotland (Aberdeenshire) and this seems to be a good reputable product. I was hoping to explain my process a little see if you could tell me where I am going wrong.

      I use the resin to set metal pin pages (metal base with a plastic cover) with my company logo into wooden chopping boards. I have the wood in a heated room a day before I do this. The bottles are also kept in a heated house and I put them in warm water before mixing together and after shaking well.

      The badges are fixed to the wood with silicone sealant 12 hours before applying the resin.

      I accurately weigh out the two pats and mix the two parts thoroughly in a plastic beaker for a few minutes before pouring onto the badges filling the void. The badges then cure at Temps of around 20 C.

      The problem I am having is that large bubbles occasionally form a long time after the resin is poured (an hour or so? ) and the most annoying part is the formation of a film on the surface rendering the casting useless! I have recently tried painting the inside of the hole with a watered down pva to try to stop the formation of bubbles too. Could the pva react with the epoxy? I have tried to attach a couple of pics of the film on top of the casting but don’t appear to be able to do this? – any help would be very much appreciated. The casting is also occasionally slightly tacky but not always? The film was also present occasionally before I was using PVA?

    • #10708
      Katherine Swift
      Keymaster

      Hi Dan,

      Can you link to a picture? That would help me give you the best advice.

    • #10713
      Dan
      Guest

      HI Katherine.

      I’m sorry I don’t know how to do this? I have uploaded them to one drive and copied the link to the folder but I can’t paste the link in here? Perhaps you could mail me on vondan@hotmail.co.uk and I will reply with the pics?

      Thank you x

    • #10717
      Dan Stewart
      Guest
    • #10719
      Katherine Swift
      Keymaster

      Hi Dan,

      Thanks for the links to the pictures. They are helpful.

      As for the bubble, it is likely coming from underneath or around your insert. You will need to seal the wood with a something that is ‘stronger’ that glue. I don’t know what the exact term is here, but you will need to use some of strong sealant to keep air in the wood.

      As for the film, it looks like you are experiencing ‘blushing’. It is also know as ‘amine blush’. This typically occurs when a component of the hardener agent reacts with the moisture and/or carbon dioxide in the air. I used to have this problem in my resin jewelry when I used a straw and blew on pendants to get out bubbles. It shows up as a greasy/frosty looking white film on top. If you cast another layer of resin on top before it completely cures, it will dissolve into the next layer. Otherwise, you have to sand it off if the resin is completely cured. 🙁 You can try wiping your piece down with a baby wipe (some have suggest Clorox wipes although I haven’t tried those) before pouring your next layer. It’s good for getting off any greasy contaminants, but experience tells me it won’t get off any blush. You can try running a dehumidifier in the room you are in to help control the blushing.

    • #10721
      Dan Stewart
      Guest

      Thank you so much Katherine.

      From the research I have done on the net since I also came up with ‘amine blush’ as the most likely cause!! I did these ones in the kitchen, where I suspect the residual moisture content was higher than in the room with the log burner! So back into this room I will go. I moved the kitchen as I thought the log burner room was too hot and causing the wood to bubble. What type of sealer would you recommend if not PVA glue? Thanks again for all your help

    • #10724
      Katherine Swift
      Keymaster

      Hi Dan,

      Unfortunately, I don’t have any experience with wood working and can’t make a sealer recommendation. I’m guessing there is a hardware store in your area that can help you pick the right product. Some kind of a ‘weather resistant’ sealant is what I would use here.

    • #10726
      Dan
      Guest

      No problem Katherine. I have decided to coat the hole with a very thin layer of silicone sealant as I think this should do the trick. I’ll let you know how I get on and hopefully others will learn from this! Thanks again for your help!

    • #10727
      Katherine Swift
      Keymaster

      Yes, I’m eager to hear how this works for you.

    • #10771
      Dan
      Guest

      Hi Katherine,

      It worked!!!! – 15 chopping boards done in one sitting and all perfect. I smeared a very thin layer of silicone in the hole then fixed the badge in with silicone. I then let this dry for one day before applying the epoxy. The critical things that I was missing before are highlighted below. Hopefully someone else will learn from these steps.

      1. Do it in a warm room with no humidity. I had the log burning stove going for a few hours before starting.
      2. Take the wood into the room the day before doing the epoxy to ensure the wood is the same temp as the room.
      3. seal the wood with silicone
      4. Warm the bottles up in warm water.

      Here is a pic of the finished product. Delighted I have eventually got the formulae. Thank you so much for taking the time to help out it has been a massive help. Please see a pic of the finished product. https://1drv.ms/i/s!AkjkC_1EoAr0h_lsv_QpDXs7YLewFg

    • #10772
      Katherine Swift
      Keymaster

      Hi Dan,

      That looks great! So happy to hear everything worked out well for you!

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